Cultural Backlash: An Open Post

[causticus]

There were some interesting discussions on yesterday's Magic Monday post and on the past month's or so posts on the Ecosophia blog regarding the collapse of alternative spirituality in the West and a likely impending cultural backlash against decades of general rot and grubbiness that is decaying our civilization from within.

Some of us here in the US are afraid that a sudden cultural jolt in the other direction, away from leftism/progressivism, will result in any type of spirituality that doesn't fit a narrow, literalist Christian/Abrahamic format as being seen by the reaction mob as "part of the problem." Anything the people leading and directing this backlash deem to be adjacent to the aforementioned cultural rot will be lazily lumped together into one big, bad conspiracy against what they believe they are trying to save and preserve. This likely means anything occult/esoteric, overtly pagan, or too foreign will be included, with very little nuance. As we know, the moral collapse of both Neopaganism and the postmodern occult scene hasn't helped matters at all in this respect, especially in light of recent tragic events.

Anyway, I want to know what anyone else here thinks of this and anything in your own area (US or somewhere else) you have seen indicative of a new cultural direction that may or or may not involve the condemnation of the things I listed above (or anything else that comes to mind). Also, we could use this space to think up ideas on how to preserve and carry on various spiritual teachings and practices if/when an intolerant religious climate becomes reality.

This is an open post that will stay open for quite a long time.

Comments

[jprussell]

Thanks for hosting this!

I definitely share the concerns, though I'd place myself more at "keep an eye out for signs that this is happening" than "it's definitely coming, be ready for it."

In-person, I haven't really noticed much to indicate things going one way or the other, other than that any Neopagan/Wiccan or adjacent spaces I've observed definitely show signs of "fading fad" - fewer, older people, groups no longer meeting, et cetera. On the other hand, I haven't seen all that many signs of resurgent Christianity, but then, I run in fairly secular PMC circles, and despite living in Texas, I live in a big city, so I may not be seeing folks turning to a stronger emphasis on Christianity in their lives.

Where I do see the more (possibly) worrying trends is in online discourse, especially among right wing folks most disgusted with the way the culture has been going for the last [insert length of time you think since things started "going wrong"], some of whom seem to more often be pointing to the lack of Christian belief as where the problem came from and/or the presence of strong, widespread Christian belief as the necessary condition for fixing the problems. Luckily, not everyone who holds variations of these beliefs is hostile or belligerent about it - some are more like "your heart's in the right place, and you're on the right side, but you're mistaken to be doing it outside of the teachings and structure of the Church." The maybe reason for optimism that I see here is actually some of the spats we've been seeing on the extremely online right between "based pagans" and "Christ bros," though more accurately, it's the non-spat, more reasonable interactions that give me hope. To the degree these (admittedly) very online discussions are upstream of the wider cultural zeitgeist, having a tiny, but vocal, contingent of polytheists saying "hey guys, we're not all nihilistic materialist leftists" might be carving out some room in the mental geography of folks who want to see the culture change in a big way to accept that maybe there's room for some of the spiritual weirdos on the other side. At least I hope so.

If I had to put on my prognosticator hat, and I assumed that there's not much a few weirdos like us can do against larger cultural and political trends, I'd likely say the best possible outcome I can see in the near to medium term is something like Charles Haywood's "ecumenicalism light" - Christianity becomes more culturally and politically assertive, maybe even dominant, and it's openly and explicitly favored, but room is left for folks to have their own beliefs as long as they don't translate into activities seen as culturally corrosive. So, maybe it's a long time yet (if ever) before we have Heathen Holy Guilds hosting festivals and doling out charity in partnership with the local Church, but I'm hopeful that I'm not gonna get run out of town or worse for quietly worshipping in my own home.

I'll be interested to see what others think, though.

Cheers,
Jeff

[causticus]

Some great points here.

Really does make me wonder how unrepresentative of reality the various flavors of "extremely online right" really are. I'd wager that right wing Pagans, TradCaths, Orthobros, and Christian Nationalists are each well less than 1% of the US population. Self-identified Pagans as a whole likely aren't even 1%.

What is a little harder to gauge is the degree of representation of random "normie" internet comments, i.e. ordinary people blowing off steam in the comment sections on various social media platforms and older media sites. There I see a lot of generic Christian sentiments expressed.

I totally agree on that last part.

[jprussell]

Yeah, agreed that those very vocal contingents are likely all tiny, though if I had to guess, groups like tradcaths and orthobros might have more room to grow among normies than some of the other options (even if this "growth" looks like more folks becoming 'normal' Catholics or Orthodox members who happen to attend more traditional Churches, without personally diving whole hog into the beliefs, ideology, and practices of the more extreme types).

I also agree that it's hard to gauge the temperature on "normies" - Librarian of Celaeno's gives some insight (from an admittedly strongly pro-traditional Orthodox point of view): https://librarianofcelaeno.substack.com/p/fall-for-jesus-he-never-leaves

If I had to guess, my assumption is pretty close to what you posited as a possibility in the main post: the vast majority of normal people will look around, not like where things have gotten, and in wondering "what alternative is there?" something like "the way things used to be" will have a strong appeal, especially with all of the social and cultural factors driving Spengler's second religiosity. As such, I imagine some form of earnest, not that weird Christianity will appear as a viable and attractive option to many, which wouldn't necessarily lead to witch hunts or the Satanic panic, but might leave some looking askance at anyone not being willing to hop aboard the train as a possible hold out for "the bad old days."

But I guess we'll see, one way or another.

Cheers,
Jeff

[causticus]

Interesting. I suspect the Second Religiosity (which seems to be already here) will emerge as its own sort of "spectacle"....to riff on some recent discussion themes on JMG's main blog. We already know "the way things used to be" in the popular imagination is a basket of romanticized ideals, rather than something close to historical accuracy (to touch on another theme we've talked about a lot); in this case, a simulacrum of either 1930s Protestant revivalism or 1950s High Modernism.

[jprussell]

Yeah, exactly - both on the second religiosity already being here (at least in its earlier phases), and on the flight to "how it used to be" being mostly based on romanticized notions. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether that insights gives those of us on the weirder side of things many more options.

[(Anonymous)]

Jumping into this discussion... I just thought I'd add that I know a fair number of people who have converted to Christianity. They used to be liberals and became conservative, and now believe the Bible in a rather orthodox (with a lower case o) way. Some of those converts also had major drug problems, so conversion was a way out of the mess they were in, but now, as I am very close to one of them, they find themselves going through the ropes of faith, but without knowing if they are actually in contact with G_d. That is a blind spot I think many of the churches who don't use a liturgy will have to contend with.

I'll go by Anonymous Anonymous here for now.

[causticus]

Hi AA, thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts and observations.

I most certainly agree that churches lacking a liturgy are completely devoid of the magical side of the religion. At best, such churches are mere support groups or an excuse to organize community events.

[jprussell]

Yeah, I agree with causticus that many of today's churches appear to be lacking in the ability to deliver what religion arguably most ought to deliver, but perhaps the "support group" and "community event organizer" roles are still a net benefit, at least for some. I wish such folks, especially those struggling, well in whatever they need to find - I just hope they'll continue to let me find it in my own more idiosyncratic ways.