Open Post on Folkish, Universalist, and Tribal Paganisms

[causticus]

On yesterday's Magic Monday post, there was a rather interesting discussion on the several "feuding" branches of today's Germanic pagan/polytheist community. Particularly the question on the merits of the frequent "racism" allegations flung at Folkish Heathens.

Here's the whole thread:
https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/237888.html?thread=41766464#cmt41766464

My lengthily response here, with some follow-up replies:
https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/237888.html?thread=41778240#cmt41778240

I figure I'll use this as an open post to continue the discussion, if anyone so desires to do so. I think there's three interesting sub-topics to be expanded on from that thread:

1. Inclusionary vs. Exclusionary approaches to contemporary polytheism/paganism.
2. The third "tribal" (Theodish) option that's an alternative to the Folkist/Universalist binary.
3. The very fascinating (IMHO) concept of a "Holy Guild" being a new way of terming a religious fellowship.

Of course, any other ideas tangentially related to the above thread is more than welcome! Thank you for not using profanity, namecalling/ad-homs, bad faith arguments, or other cheap troll behaviors.

Comments

[jprussell]

1a. Yeah, I agree that in the public discourse of our time, "inclusion" has a specific meaning rather different from how I was (charitably) using it in my answer. Pluralistic universalism is much closer to what I meant, and something I'm far more on-board with, but it is, of course, vulnerable to stringent or even intentional re-interpretation as the more political "inclusion."

1b. Also good points on the "selective memory" of folkishness as often practiced in the US. If anything, the muddle makes me slightly more sympathetic to the groups that throw up their hands and say "you know what, white is the best we can do here," even though that smashes together a wide swath of pre-Christian peoples and cultures under the umbrella of just one subset of them. I mean, if you really want a purely reconstructed indigenous religion for all white people, you likely ought to go for PIE reconstructionism. But that still leaves your maybe even-more valid point of the vast swathes of time involved and the inconvenient millennium of Christian ancestors. Still, for me, a pluralistic answer of "hey guys, if that's how you want to set your group up and you're not hurting anybody else, go nuts." I've come to believe that how much a spiritual practice speaks to you aesthetically and intuitively is a lot more important than most modern Americans think, so if that's what gets their spirits up, who am I to tell them to stop?

By the way, as a personal note on the ancestor thing, I solve these difficulties by cheating in two ways: 1) I use the word "forebear" as an intentionally "inclusive" (see what I did there?) word that holds both my literal genetic ancestors as well as folks who shaped the culture that makes me who I am, and 2) when I offer worship and blessings, I specify "to any of you who welcome it," while offering my "thanks" to all. I reckon this has me covered for any Christian ancestors that want no truck with such heathen nonsense, as well as my Heathen ancestors who are happy to finally be honored again, as well as whatever other guardian spirits, group souls, egregores, or whatever I might be worshipping when I make that kind of offer.

2. Agreed that Theodism has done a lot of stuff that I respect and admire as well as a lot of stuff that I find kind of cringe. Jettisoning the warband structure for the Holy Guild approach is one of the things I respect the most (along with their detailed research). My current resolution for this dilemma is to treat them as a very valuable source on what we know about historical Anglo-Saxon beliefs and practices, and then use that knowledge to craft my own weirdo path.

The one piece of sympathy I have for the LARP aspect is the aesthetic thing I mentioned above. It's long been known that it can help rituals be more effective if they are made to feel "set off" (sacred) from normal life, and it helps if the methods of differentiating the ritual time/space from normal life are emotionally charged and/or stir the imagination. I reckon for some folks, putting on your tunic and cap or what have you helps to get the energy flowing for rituals. Once again, I can't judge too hard if I'm going to put on a robe for Universal Gnostic Church or Druid initiations.

Oh, actually, one more, lesser argument I can see in favor of LARPy rituals is "well, maybe we don't understand some of what made it work" - for example, maybe it's covering your head that's important, or maybe that the covering is made of cotton but not linen, or that it has certain colors, or patterns, or whatever. That could likely be determined by experiment and/or comparison with other rituals that work, but copying historical models known to work is a tried and true human approach: https://www.alibris.com/The-Secret-of-Our-Success-How-Culture-Is-Driving-Human-Evolution-Domesticating-Our-Species-and-Making-Us-Smarter-Joseph-Henrich/book/32353538?matches=30