Thanks for keeping this up for so long. I'm not online very often, so sometimes it takes me a few weeks to find something I'm interested in throwing my two-cents in, but by then it's too late and comments are closed. 😿
After CKs murder, I made the explicit decision to be quiet, wait things out and see how everything unfolded. I'm glad I did.
I live in one of the few parts of the US that is pretty openly neopagan (in the reddit/r/pagan sense of the word) and people here reacted pretty much exactly how neopagan folks online reacted - as in, really, really badly. Most of the Christians here also reacted very poorly, as around here they're very politically liberal (because they - IMO, wrongly - believe that being politically liberal will stop their congregation from shrinking) and so are more politically aligned with local neopagans than they are with more conservative Christian sects.
So around here, the chances of a backlash occuring are pretty much zero as nobody here liked CK in the first place and were generally pretty happy to see him gone. Nobody got cancelled or lost their jobs or anything and with a few exceptions (mostly scolding from the relatively few right wing people here) the local community has largely moved on. There's going to be a 21+ "witch" festival this weekend. I'm definitely **not** attending.
How does this relate to the neopagan community as a whole?
The neopagan community is (generally) a few steps ahead of mainstream liberalism, and IMO acts as a preview of what's to come in our larger culture. And I really do /not/ like what I am seeing.
The neopagan community has largely adopted some version of subjective solipsism as a core tenent of neopaganism. And if you don't accept this solipsism, then you can't call yourself neopagan.
What do I mean by "subjective solipsism"? I mentioned reddits /r/pagan subreddit earlier, and I think that sub is a pretty good example. Ultimately, it's the idea that there is no such thing as a shared reality - rather, ones internal identity is what constitutes reality, and if there is a conflict, then that identity takes precedence. And others MUST accept this, regardless of what it is.
To take an example from that very thread on JMGs Magic Monday dreamwidth post - If your unique neopagan identity says it's OK to leave an offering to Pele in Volcano National Park, then it doesn't matter if it's the wrong offering. It doesn't matter if the National Park service said to stop. It doesn't matter if the locals, who have worshipped her for generations, are saying not to do that. It doesn't matter if you risk pissing her off. Your identity - your reality - says otherwise, therefore not only is it ok, but nobody else is allowed to say otherwise (which is why there's such a huge push for the genericization of language, at least in the Anglosphere, among the Professional Manegerial Class. After all, you can't offend someone elses "reality"!). Examples abound, especially among gods that are present in popular media / young adult novels (think Apollo, Loki, etc).
The result is pretty much what we have seen in the wake of CKs murder - zero ethics. Zero morals. Zero conviction. Zero candor. Viewed through this lens, then many of the actions of the current neopagan scene make a whole lot more sense. Of course someone would try to murder CK via a curse cast by an etsy witch. Of course people reacted the way they did when the curse appeared to have worked. All gains are internal and privatized, and all consequences are external and socialized.
If you look around society right now, you see this beginning to happen everywhere (especially in areas where post-modernism and identity politics flourish) - it's just that the neopagans adopted this first, and so they're pretty far in to it.
Which is why I don't think there is going to be a huge backlash to this specifically. Because the Christians are affected by this too, and they themselves have become too atomized (though they are probably about a decade behind the neopagans in this regard) to really come together and do anything major about it.
Because what is happening with the neopagans isn't exclusive to them - it's a societal problem. And it effects the Christians too.
However, there will be a backlash against this social movement of subjective solipsism as a whole. That backlash I think will take the form of a "re-enchantment" - a wholesale rejection of enlightenment rationalism. It's going to take a pretty long time to play out, though. Likely many generations.
In the meantime, what is to be done? We need refuges for folks who don't want to accept subjective solipsism.
On the Christian side of things, refuge can come in the form of more traditional Christian churches. Orthodox churches in particular have seen significant growth since the end of COVID, as have Protestant churches. The Christian churches that are shrinking are, funny enough, primarily more liberal ones. I suspect that's because they come off as having a lack of conviction, something I personally view as a sign of increasing solipsism. I fully expect more traditionalist Christian churches to grow in the foreseeable future, at the expense of less traditional ones.
On the neopagan side of things, it's more complicated. There are very, very few places of refuge, and the few that do exist tend to be really unsavory (eg, folkish heathenry) or cult-like (or sometimes they're just straight-up cults).
Ultimately I think those who are interested in starting a new movement, or transitioning an existing one, away from solipsism and towards re-enchantment would be wise to consider the following:
* Abandon the terms "neopagan" and "pagan". They carry significant baggage and are not worth using anymore IMO. Start referring to your movement by name (as many Heathens do now) or by some other term, such as "Traditional Religion".
* Adopt an explicit series of morals, ethics, virtues, and convictions - and stick with them, even if society doesn't agree with them. Someone above mentioned "12 steps programs" - that's a really good example. Those who refuse to follow those morals/ethics/virtues/convictions need to be excluded - there are way too many examples of pagans changing their movement for an individual, rather than the individual changing for the movement.
* Break the taboo of involving friends and family, especially children. This taboo has gotten ridiculous, to the point where most neopagans won't even allow kids anywhere near anything. Meanwhile, I can go to literally any Christian church and bring my kids with me, and not only will they be accepted, but they'll actually be allowed to involve themselves in church services! Where are the pagan nurseries? Where are the pagan child care facilities? Where are the pagan private schools!? Religion dies without successors, and the great majority of neopagan faiths are basically on the path of killing themselves. I'm not advocating proselyzation, but if you have kids, involve them in your faith. If you have friends and family, tell them your beliefs, and if they show interest, consider inviting them. Seriously, this taboo is absurd and is 100% self defeating.
* Many neopagan religions have a "too many cooks" problem, as in everyone is a priest / priestess, and nobody is a layperson. This makes it REALLY hard for newbies to join in. No, the problem isn't hierarchy - most religions are hierarchical, and have been since the dawn of time. The problem is the lack of a laity. I can literally walk in to any Christian church right now as a layperson and be accepted (so long as I accept the terms, see "morals, ethics, convictions"). In many neopagan movements, you can't do that. Neopagans need laypeople, and they need a hard separation between laypeople and priests/priestesses. Stop trying to eliminate hierarchy, and instead aim to minimize it while still keeping a solid structure that's easy for people to join.
* Finally - adopt a mindset of a shared reality, and reject atomization and solipsism. Don't allow the outside culture to change the inside culture - if you do, then your movement will be changing cultures constantly, will become unstable, and will come off as having a lack of conviction. Internal culture should change slowly. Dare I say, maybe you should adopt a bit of conservatism in regards to change within your movement! That way people know what they're getting in to, and won't be afraid that something will change in 6 months.
That's all I've got for now. Overall I think the neopagan movement is in pretty big trouble. I agree with JMG in that it's time to let it go, and start loading lifeboats.
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branchandroot
(no subject)
Date: 2025-10-02 06:38 pm (UTC)After CKs murder, I made the explicit decision to be quiet, wait things out and see how everything unfolded. I'm glad I did.
I live in one of the few parts of the US that is pretty openly neopagan (in the reddit/r/pagan sense of the word) and people here reacted pretty much exactly how neopagan folks online reacted - as in, really, really badly. Most of the Christians here also reacted very poorly, as around here they're very politically liberal (because they - IMO, wrongly - believe that being politically liberal will stop their congregation from shrinking) and so are more politically aligned with local neopagans than they are with more conservative Christian sects.
So around here, the chances of a backlash occuring are pretty much zero as nobody here liked CK in the first place and were generally pretty happy to see him gone. Nobody got cancelled or lost their jobs or anything and with a few exceptions (mostly scolding from the relatively few right wing people here) the local community has largely moved on. There's going to be a 21+ "witch" festival this weekend. I'm definitely **not** attending.
How does this relate to the neopagan community as a whole?
The neopagan community is (generally) a few steps ahead of mainstream liberalism, and IMO acts as a preview of what's to come in our larger culture. And I really do /not/ like what I am seeing.
The neopagan community has largely adopted some version of subjective solipsism as a core tenent of neopaganism. And if you don't accept this solipsism, then you can't call yourself neopagan.
What do I mean by "subjective solipsism"? I mentioned reddits /r/pagan subreddit earlier, and I think that sub is a pretty good example. Ultimately, it's the idea that there is no such thing as a shared reality - rather, ones internal identity is what constitutes reality, and if there is a conflict, then that identity takes precedence. And others MUST accept this, regardless of what it is.
To take an example from that very thread on JMGs Magic Monday dreamwidth post - If your unique neopagan identity says it's OK to leave an offering to Pele in Volcano National Park, then it doesn't matter if it's the wrong offering. It doesn't matter if the National Park service said to stop. It doesn't matter if the locals, who have worshipped her for generations, are saying not to do that. It doesn't matter if you risk pissing her off. Your identity - your reality - says otherwise, therefore not only is it ok, but nobody else is allowed to say otherwise (which is why there's such a huge push for the genericization of language, at least in the Anglosphere, among the Professional Manegerial Class. After all, you can't offend someone elses "reality"!). Examples abound, especially among gods that are present in popular media / young adult novels (think Apollo, Loki, etc).
The result is pretty much what we have seen in the wake of CKs murder - zero ethics. Zero morals. Zero conviction. Zero candor. Viewed through this lens, then many of the actions of the current neopagan scene make a whole lot more sense. Of course someone would try to murder CK via a curse cast by an etsy witch. Of course people reacted the way they did when the curse appeared to have worked. All gains are internal and privatized, and all consequences are external and socialized.
If you look around society right now, you see this beginning to happen everywhere (especially in areas where post-modernism and identity politics flourish) - it's just that the neopagans adopted this first, and so they're pretty far in to it.
Which is why I don't think there is going to be a huge backlash to this specifically. Because the Christians are affected by this too, and they themselves have become too atomized (though they are probably about a decade behind the neopagans in this regard) to really come together and do anything major about it.
Because what is happening with the neopagans isn't exclusive to them - it's a societal problem. And it effects the Christians too.
However, there will be a backlash against this social movement of subjective solipsism as a whole. That backlash I think will take the form of a "re-enchantment" - a wholesale rejection of enlightenment rationalism. It's going to take a pretty long time to play out, though. Likely many generations.
In the meantime, what is to be done? We need refuges for folks who don't want to accept subjective solipsism.
On the Christian side of things, refuge can come in the form of more traditional Christian churches. Orthodox churches in particular have seen significant growth since the end of COVID, as have Protestant churches. The Christian churches that are shrinking are, funny enough, primarily more liberal ones. I suspect that's because they come off as having a lack of conviction, something I personally view as a sign of increasing solipsism. I fully expect more traditionalist Christian churches to grow in the foreseeable future, at the expense of less traditional ones.
On the neopagan side of things, it's more complicated. There are very, very few places of refuge, and the few that do exist tend to be really unsavory (eg, folkish heathenry) or cult-like (or sometimes they're just straight-up cults).
Ultimately I think those who are interested in starting a new movement, or transitioning an existing one, away from solipsism and towards re-enchantment would be wise to consider the following:
* Abandon the terms "neopagan" and "pagan". They carry significant baggage and are not worth using anymore IMO. Start referring to your movement by name (as many Heathens do now) or by some other term, such as "Traditional Religion".
* Adopt an explicit series of morals, ethics, virtues, and convictions - and stick with them, even if society doesn't agree with them. Someone above mentioned "12 steps programs" - that's a really good example. Those who refuse to follow those morals/ethics/virtues/convictions need to be excluded - there are way too many examples of pagans changing their movement for an individual, rather than the individual changing for the movement.
* Break the taboo of involving friends and family, especially children. This taboo has gotten ridiculous, to the point where most neopagans won't even allow kids anywhere near anything. Meanwhile, I can go to literally any Christian church and bring my kids with me, and not only will they be accepted, but they'll actually be allowed to involve themselves in church services! Where are the pagan nurseries? Where are the pagan child care facilities? Where are the pagan private schools!? Religion dies without successors, and the great majority of neopagan faiths are basically on the path of killing themselves. I'm not advocating proselyzation, but if you have kids, involve them in your faith. If you have friends and family, tell them your beliefs, and if they show interest, consider inviting them. Seriously, this taboo is absurd and is 100% self defeating.
* Many neopagan religions have a "too many cooks" problem, as in everyone is a priest / priestess, and nobody is a layperson. This makes it REALLY hard for newbies to join in. No, the problem isn't hierarchy - most religions are hierarchical, and have been since the dawn of time. The problem is the lack of a laity. I can literally walk in to any Christian church right now as a layperson and be accepted (so long as I accept the terms, see "morals, ethics, convictions"). In many neopagan movements, you can't do that. Neopagans need laypeople, and they need a hard separation between laypeople and priests/priestesses. Stop trying to eliminate hierarchy, and instead aim to minimize it while still keeping a solid structure that's easy for people to join.
* Finally - adopt a mindset of a shared reality, and reject atomization and solipsism. Don't allow the outside culture to change the inside culture - if you do, then your movement will be changing cultures constantly, will become unstable, and will come off as having a lack of conviction. Internal culture should change slowly. Dare I say, maybe you should adopt a bit of conservatism in regards to change within your movement! That way people know what they're getting in to, and won't be afraid that something will change in 6 months.
That's all I've got for now. Overall I think the neopagan movement is in pretty big trouble. I agree with JMG in that it's time to let it go, and start loading lifeboats.