Well, thanks, I try to at least make the verbosity relevant, glad I mostly hit the mark this time.
1. Very interesting - I had assumed a lot more un-examined acceptance of tropes that came from politically-adjacent groups. On the other hand, it makes a certain amount of sense given these group's strong interest in "blood" as you mention, and therefore they tend to follow the genetic evidence which really took the already strong Pontic Steppe origin theory and made it a slam dunk. As you say, though, it's weird that they jump through hoops to equate PIE with Germanic, rather than just saying "Proto-Indo-Europeans were the original whites, so I'll be a Proto-Indo-European reconstructionist!" And yeah, I've purposely avoided using the term "Aryan" outside of the Indo-Iranic branch due to its lack of attestation and the political baggage it has picked up, whether or not it was the ethnonym used by PIE speakers (or if they even had one for all of them!)
2. Absolutely, full agreement here. I hope that my tongue-in-cheek tone came across when I stated that their version of coherent culture was "attractive" - I more meant "I can see how some folks would find that attractive, but I do not for all of the reasons you mention and more."
3. I did read that article (I'm a subscriber) and enjoyed it. I think his class labels are accurate enough to be useful (whether his old attempt at it using a mishmash of different labels, or the new Tolkien-inspired one), but as with all models, leave some things out for the sake of ease of understanding. One interesting area of tension with his model versus things I've picked up around the Ecosophia community is that he puts much less emphasis on "how you make your living" than JMG does, and more on cultural/ideological factors. Also, he tends to use the same rough and ready ethnic associations with each class that have been largely true for a while now, but which JMG points out might be starting to change along the edges due to similar economic interests. Also, Tolkien must be rolling over in his grave to have folks equate Elrond and Gil Galad with American Liberal PMC elites.
4. Yeah, definitely. As you and I have maybe talked about before, I think a fixation on authenticity (or lineage) is often a symptom of someone with a materialist worldview desperately trying to justify things that give them meaning (or that they hope will), but don't easily fit materialism.
5. Huh, I was not aware of the anti-Platonic strand of thinking in Hellenism, but then I haven't much looked into it, as I feel very little draw to Hellenic worship, despite knowing the myths and culture rather well (I was a Classics major in college). What's hilarious to me is that the slippery slope you mention is so very similar to the Heathens who are allergic to any hint of Christian influence in the myths or practice - some to the point of rejecting Baldur as a Christ-substitute and the regeneration after Ragnarok as a Christian tack-on.
6. I don't know how much more insight I can offer, but as you say, it's wacky. It is always dangerous to psychoanalyze on the internet, but I wonder if at least sometimes there isn't some Freudian/Jungian-style compulsion toward the repressed (kind of the reverse of "what you contemplate, you imitate"). Now that I think of it though, there might be an element of PMC-typical hubris: "I am smart and compassionate and wise enough to take this filthy, tainted racist/sexist/homophobic/Nazi religion and turn it into a shining example of today's PMC values." Likely the best counter-example that comes to mind of a very Left-wing practitioner of Germanic religion who seems to nevertheless express why it's a draw and what it has to offer is Rune Rasmussen from Nordic Animism. I roll my eyes at his politics sometimes, but he at least takes seriously that you can acknowledge the value in learning from the folkways of your land and ancestors without that making you a racist.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2023-01-20 06:46 pm (UTC)1. Very interesting - I had assumed a lot more un-examined acceptance of tropes that came from politically-adjacent groups. On the other hand, it makes a certain amount of sense given these group's strong interest in "blood" as you mention, and therefore they tend to follow the genetic evidence which really took the already strong Pontic Steppe origin theory and made it a slam dunk. As you say, though, it's weird that they jump through hoops to equate PIE with Germanic, rather than just saying "Proto-Indo-Europeans were the original whites, so I'll be a Proto-Indo-European reconstructionist!" And yeah, I've purposely avoided using the term "Aryan" outside of the Indo-Iranic branch due to its lack of attestation and the political baggage it has picked up, whether or not it was the ethnonym used by PIE speakers (or if they even had one for all of them!)
2. Absolutely, full agreement here. I hope that my tongue-in-cheek tone came across when I stated that their version of coherent culture was "attractive" - I more meant "I can see how some folks would find that attractive, but I do not for all of the reasons you mention and more."
3. I did read that article (I'm a subscriber) and enjoyed it. I think his class labels are accurate enough to be useful (whether his old attempt at it using a mishmash of different labels, or the new Tolkien-inspired one), but as with all models, leave some things out for the sake of ease of understanding. One interesting area of tension with his model versus things I've picked up around the Ecosophia community is that he puts much less emphasis on "how you make your living" than JMG does, and more on cultural/ideological factors. Also, he tends to use the same rough and ready ethnic associations with each class that have been largely true for a while now, but which JMG points out might be starting to change along the edges due to similar economic interests. Also, Tolkien must be rolling over in his grave to have folks equate Elrond and Gil Galad with American Liberal PMC elites.
4. Yeah, definitely. As you and I have maybe talked about before, I think a fixation on authenticity (or lineage) is often a symptom of someone with a materialist worldview desperately trying to justify things that give them meaning (or that they hope will), but don't easily fit materialism.
5. Huh, I was not aware of the anti-Platonic strand of thinking in Hellenism, but then I haven't much looked into it, as I feel very little draw to Hellenic worship, despite knowing the myths and culture rather well (I was a Classics major in college). What's hilarious to me is that the slippery slope you mention is so very similar to the Heathens who are allergic to any hint of Christian influence in the myths or practice - some to the point of rejecting Baldur as a Christ-substitute and the regeneration after Ragnarok as a Christian tack-on.
6. I don't know how much more insight I can offer, but as you say, it's wacky. It is always dangerous to psychoanalyze on the internet, but I wonder if at least sometimes there isn't some Freudian/Jungian-style compulsion toward the repressed (kind of the reverse of "what you contemplate, you imitate"). Now that I think of it though, there might be an element of PMC-typical hubris: "I am smart and compassionate and wise enough to take this filthy, tainted racist/sexist/homophobic/Nazi religion and turn it into a shining example of today's PMC values." Likely the best counter-example that comes to mind of a very Left-wing practitioner of Germanic religion who seems to nevertheless express why it's a draw and what it has to offer is Rune Rasmussen from Nordic Animism. I roll my eyes at his politics sometimes, but he at least takes seriously that you can acknowledge the value in learning from the folkways of your land and ancestors without that making you a racist.