Thank you, Jeff! First thing I'll say is that you certainly never disappoint with the epic textwalls ;) So many great point btw; I feel like a lot of what you said fills in the gaps in what I laid out above.
1. Yeah I'm vaguely aware of the backstory you mention here but you're way more knowledgeable in the details so I'm definitely appreciative of you sharing those details here! Funny thing regarding some of the social media haunts I alluded to in my post; there is the tendency among this crowd to still use the term "Aryan" to refer to all IE peoples, despite the fact that we see no strong evidence of its use as an endonym outside of the Indo-Iranian branch of the family. They know way better though than to rehash the old bunk theory that Norther European was the IE urheimat. Even the most nationalistic of RW pagans firmly acknowledge the Pontic/Caspian steppe region as being the original PIE homeland. Of course this makes their LARP even more convoluted, as it's now become a bit of a habit to consider "Scythians" to be very close kin to the Nordic peoples. I've seen some bloggers and vloggers assert that these two peoples has essentially the same exact culture. So it seems like the old bad idea has simply been updated and rebranded in the face of newer archaeological and linguistic evidence.
2. I'm in full agreement here and I share the same sympathies. Here in the US I really do want these groups to succeed, grow, and thrive. Though hopefully in a way that better integrates into the modern North American culture and landscape(s). If it can't move beyond marketing itself (and behaving like) as a strictly Old World diaspora faith then it's basically going to be little more than Judaism dressed up in a Viking costume. Of course I'd say the same for any type of Euro paganism being practiced here in North America.
3. I think Yarvin is dead on here. BTW, have you seen his article where he employs a "Elves vs. Hobbits" analogy to illustrate the American culture war? Half the post on substack is paywalled, but he basically uses “Elves” for the PMC and “Hobbits” for the working class: https://graymirror.substack.com/p/the-tolkien-system-of-social-roles The analogy is quite crude and he got quite a bit of pushback from his readers because of it, but I think the basic logic is sound and reflects what you said above.
4. You're right that this issue is heavily polarized and it can be very difficult to break the binary. I do think there's something hardwired into humans which makes appeals to lineage and ancestry a very convincing means of persuading people that a tradition is "authentic"...as you very well touch on in the next point. JMG's article does a great job as showing why Reonstructionists do what they do, and why their appeals can seem so "legit" to ordinary people. And just 100 years ago it was the norm of most Occult orders to claim some super-ancient lineage that goes back to time immemorial. People by default seem to prefer tradition over novelty. On topic here, the RW materialist pagan version of this is to see "blood" as their lineage, and thus an "authentic" appeal that makes their paganism properly rooted in the past.
5. Funny enough I’ve seen the “No dirty Mediterranean Platonism in my pure White Eddas!" sentiment plenty of times on social media. Usually in a muffled form like, “those ideas are not from our folk, therefore it’s wrong.” Yeah, again the absurdity speaks for itself. Also, I’ve seen some in the Hellenic camp express hostility toward Platonism, usually employing sort of sloppy consequentialist sophistry that goes something like, “Platonism is Monist, and Monism was the gateway drug to Christianity. Also, Monism encouraged disbelief in the gods and myths, which is what led to the destruction of pagan Hellenic civilization.” Basically, slippery slope rhetoric. I’ll probably go into this more on my Hellenism post.
6. Totally agree here. It kind of shows the idea-schizophrenia of leftists who (claim to) practice Germanic paganism today. As the Left tends to see a present-day interest in anything old and traditional associated with European peoples as a slippery slope to a second coming of Hitler. Which begs they question: why are they even interested in Northern European ancestral traditions to begin with? Why don’t they sod off and go practice Shinto or Cabala or something? Rather mind-boggling, though I bet you have way more insight than I do on this particular topic.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2023-01-20 04:07 pm (UTC)1. Yeah I'm vaguely aware of the backstory you mention here but you're way more knowledgeable in the details so I'm definitely appreciative of you sharing those details here! Funny thing regarding some of the social media haunts I alluded to in my post; there is the tendency among this crowd to still use the term "Aryan" to refer to all IE peoples, despite the fact that we see no strong evidence of its use as an endonym outside of the Indo-Iranian branch of the family. They know way better though than to rehash the old bunk theory that Norther European was the IE urheimat. Even the most nationalistic of RW pagans firmly acknowledge the Pontic/Caspian steppe region as being the original PIE homeland. Of course this makes their LARP even more convoluted, as it's now become a bit of a habit to consider "Scythians" to be very close kin to the Nordic peoples. I've seen some bloggers and vloggers assert that these two peoples has essentially the same exact culture. So it seems like the old bad idea has simply been updated and rebranded in the face of newer archaeological and linguistic evidence.
2. I'm in full agreement here and I share the same sympathies. Here in the US I really do want these groups to succeed, grow, and thrive. Though hopefully in a way that better integrates into the modern North American culture and landscape(s). If it can't move beyond marketing itself (and behaving like) as a strictly Old World diaspora faith then it's basically going to be little more than Judaism dressed up in a Viking costume. Of course I'd say the same for any type of Euro paganism being practiced here in North America.
3. I think Yarvin is dead on here. BTW, have you seen his article where he employs a "Elves vs. Hobbits" analogy to illustrate the American culture war? Half the post on substack is paywalled, but he basically uses “Elves” for the PMC and “Hobbits” for the working class:
https://graymirror.substack.com/p/the-tolkien-system-of-social-roles
The analogy is quite crude and he got quite a bit of pushback from his readers because of it, but I think the basic logic is sound and reflects what you said above.
4. You're right that this issue is heavily polarized and it can be very difficult to break the binary. I do think there's something hardwired into humans which makes appeals to lineage and ancestry a very convincing means of persuading people that a tradition is "authentic"...as you very well touch on in the next point. JMG's article does a great job as showing why Reonstructionists do what they do, and why their appeals can seem so "legit" to ordinary people. And just 100 years ago it was the norm of most Occult orders to claim some super-ancient lineage that goes back to time immemorial. People by default seem to prefer tradition over novelty. On topic here, the RW materialist pagan version of this is to see "blood" as their lineage, and thus an "authentic" appeal that makes their paganism properly rooted in the past.
5. Funny enough I’ve seen the “No dirty Mediterranean Platonism in my pure White Eddas!" sentiment plenty of times on social media. Usually in a muffled form like, “those ideas are not from our folk, therefore it’s wrong.” Yeah, again the absurdity speaks for itself. Also, I’ve seen some in the Hellenic camp express hostility toward Platonism, usually employing sort of sloppy consequentialist sophistry that goes something like, “Platonism is Monist, and Monism was the gateway drug to Christianity. Also, Monism encouraged disbelief in the gods and myths, which is what led to the destruction of pagan Hellenic civilization.” Basically, slippery slope rhetoric. I’ll probably go into this more on my Hellenism post.
6. Totally agree here. It kind of shows the idea-schizophrenia of leftists who (claim to) practice Germanic paganism today. As the Left tends to see a present-day interest in anything old and traditional associated with European peoples as a slippery slope to a second coming of Hitler. Which begs they question: why are they even interested in Northern European ancestral traditions to begin with? Why don’t they sod off and go practice Shinto or Cabala or something? Rather mind-boggling, though I bet you have way more insight than I do on this particular topic.